From: dunlapr@SPAMFOIL.kodak.com Subject: 96 well visible plate reader/spectrophotometer Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:57:10 -0400 From: Richard P. Dunlap I would like to add a reagent to initiate a kinetic series inside a 96 well plate reader/spectrophotometer. I'd need to initiate at least 8 at a time and all 96 would be nice. Can anyone recommend a 96 well plate reader or preferrablly a 96 well plate spectrophotometer that has this capability? Thank you. From: Jackbonham@SPAMFOIL.aol.com Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96 well visible platereader/spectrophotometer Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 18:11:09 EDT By your description, you must have a fairly quick kinetic reaction. The Titertek MAP could add reagent to 8 to 96 wells simultaneously and then send the plate to the reader, but you would be looking at approximately a 15-20 second delay between reagent addition and reading. The actual read takes about 4 seconds. I am unaware of any of our competitors that have injectors inside a microplate spectrophotometer. Perhaps the Victor by Wallac, but I think if an injector is available it would not do more than 1-3 wells at a time. Jack Bonham Titertek Instruments www.titertek.com 888-TITERTEK From: FMatus1438@SPAMFOIL.aol.com Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96 well visible platereader/spectrophotometer Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:11:33 EDT Dear Richard, Labsystems makes a 96 well plate reader that has the ability to dispense into 8 wells at a time. I would be happy to discuss your application with you and see if our system would meet your needs. Please feel free to call me at 800-522-7763 ext 4505. Best Regards, Frank Matuszak Regional Sales Manager Labsystems From: CES1Tom@SPAMFOIL.aol.com Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96 well visible platereader/spectrophotometer Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:38:50 EDT Richard, Labsystems has had a photometric plate reader out for some time that will do what you requested. It is a 96 well reader that can dispense 8 wells at a time, reads to 6 OD (linear to 4 OD) and is filter based. You can get some details at their web site (labsystems.fi ), or contact them at 800 522-7763 x 3445 Dave Jones, Product Manager. Tom Hill Cutting Edge Scientific From: Andy Zaayenga Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96 well visible platereader/spectrophotometer Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 19:45:09 -0400 Richard, If you don't find a suitable reader, another option is to find an automation system that can pipette directly into the reader plate locator. Immediately after reagent addition into the plate, the carrier may be drawn into the reader and the kinetic read initiated. The Tekcel Assay TekBench has the ability to do this, given of course, that the selected reader has the necessary vertical clearance. Andy Zaayenga TekCel Corporation Mailto:andy.zaayenga@SPAMFOIL.tekcel.com Web Site: http://tekcel.com At 02:57 PM 9/3/99 -0400, dunlapr@SPAMFOIL.kodak.com wrote to Andy: |--------------------- |Lab-Robotics Discussion |--------------------- |From: Richard P. Dunlap | |I would like to add a reagent to initiate a kinetic series inside a 96 well |plate reader/spectrophotometer. I'd need to initiate at least 8 at a time |and all 96 would be nice. |Can anyone recommend a 96 well plate reader or preferrablly a 96 well |plate spectrophotometer that has this capability? |Thank you. | From: Gottfried Griesmayr Subject: Subject: 96 well visible plate reader/spectrophotometer Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:37:00 +0200 Dear Richard, Anthos Labtec produces a combined luminometer/photometer with twin dispensers built in. The setup of the dispensing - measurement sequence is flexible and may be adjusted to the delay you want to have from the initial dispensing to the first measurement. You can dispense and measure well by well, plate by plate or have any number of wells in between in one block (e.g. row by row). If you can allow about one minute interval time, you may initiate all 96 wells at once and then measure kinetic. If you need shorter interval times, you have to divide the plate into blocks of appropriate size. It is not a spectrophotometer, but you can have up to 15 filters simultaneously in the instrument. Best regards Dr. Gottfried Griesmayr Product & Account Manager Phone: +43 662 857220 Mobile: +43 676 3032676 Fax: +43 662 857223 E-mail: gottfried.griesmayr@SPAMFOIL.anthos-labtec.com Homepage: http://www.anthos-labtec.com -----Original Message----- From: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org [SMTP:discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org] Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 9:17 AM To: Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Digest -1999/09/04 - 1999/09/05 (5) From: dunlapr@SPAMFOIL.kodak.com Subject: 96 well visible plate reader/spectrophotometer Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:57:10 -0400 From: Richard P. Dunlap I would like to add a reagent to initiate a kinetic series inside a 96 well plate reader/spectrophotometer. I'd need to initiate at least 8 at a time and all 96 would be nice. Can anyone recommend a 96 well plate reader or preferrablly a 96 well plate spectrophotometer that has this capability? Thank you. From: "Stein Roaldset" Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96 well visible plate reader/spectrophotometer Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:07:02 -0700 Kinetic Assay Tomtec has a prototype reader available that will dispense into all 96 wells and read simultaneously. More information is on our WEB site, www.tomtec.com and by contacting me. Best regards Stein A. Roaldset VP Technical Sales Tomtec Inc. 203-281-6790 -----Original Message----- From: dunlapr@SPAMFOIL.kodak.com To: Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List Date: Saturday, September 04, 1999 10:38 AM Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96 well visible plate reader/spectrophotometer >--------------------- >Lab-Robotics Discussion >--------------------- >From: Richard P. Dunlap > >I would like to add a reagent to initiate a kinetic series inside a 96 well >plate reader/spectrophotometer. I'd need to initiate at least 8 at a time >and all 96 would be nice. >Can anyone recommend a 96 well plate reader or preferrablly a 96 well >plate spectrophotometer that has this capability? >Thank you. > >--- Lab-Robotics Discussion >The LRIG also maintains a mailing list for buying and selling used laboratory >automation equipment. To subscribe to the Swap Shop list, send a message to >swapshop@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org with just "Subscribe" (no quotes) in the subject. > > From: Myles Reilly Subject: Conductivity meter Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 07:28:02 -0600 I'm looking for a conductivity meter that can measure small volume, say 10uL. Myles Reilly, Engineer University of Utah Genome Center 20 S 2030 E RM 308 Salt Lake City, UT 84112-9454 Work Phone 801-585-7930 FAX 801-585-7177 WWW URL: From: "Susan T Ballard" Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96 well visible plate reader/spectrophotometer Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:54:45 -0800 Richard, There are several detectors on the market that can will inject to allow T=0....... ((rapid kinetics)). Wallic and BMG both have units that provide that capability. Susan Ballard BeckmanCoulter dunlapr@SPAMFOIL.kodak.com on 09/03/99 10:57:10 AM Please respond to discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org (Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List) cc: (bcc: Susan T Ballard/SALES/BII) Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96 well visible plate reader/spectrophotometer --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- From: Richard P. Dunlap I would like to add a reagent to initiate a kinetic series inside a 96 well plate reader/spectrophotometer. I'd need to initiate at least 8 at a time and all 96 would be nice. Can anyone recommend a 96 well plate reader or preferrablly a 96 well plate spectrophotometer that has this capability? Thank you. From: Lenore Buehrer Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Digest -1999/09/04 - 1999/09/05 (5) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:22:05 -0400 Hi, Richard - Bio-Tek has a 96 well microplate spectrophotometer that does not include dispensers, but can be integrated into an automated system for this purpose. Please let me know if you'd like more information about the PowerWaveX reader. Lenore Buehrer Bio-Tek Instruments, Inc. buehrerl@SPAMFOIL.biotek.com http://www.biotek.com -----Original Message----- From: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org [mailto:discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org] Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 10:38 AM To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Digest -1999/09/04 - 1999/09/05 (5) From: dunlapr@SPAMFOIL.kodak.com Subject: 96 well visible plate reader/spectrophotometer Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:57:10 -0400 From: Richard P. Dunlap I would like to add a reagent to initiate a kinetic series inside a 96 well plate reader/spectrophotometer. I'd need to initiate at least 8 at a time and all 96 would be nice. Can anyone recommend a 96 well plate reader or preferrablly a 96 well plate spectrophotometer that has this capability? Thank you. From: Jeff_Busnach@SPAMFOIL.Millipore.com Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Conductivity meter Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:29:37 -0400 Myles, Try WPI (World Precision Instruments) http://www.wpiinc.com/ If you need a custom made device, try contacting Dr. Suyi Liu there. good luck, -jeff Jeffrey S. Busnach MultiWell Products & Automation Scientist Email: Jeff_Busnach@SPAMFOIL.millipore.com Tel: U.S. (978) 762-5204 Fax: U.S. (978) 762-5384 MILLIPORE CORPORATION 17 Cherry Hill Drive Danvers, MA 01923 Myles Reilly on 09/07/99 09:28:02 AM Please respond to discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org (Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List) cc: (bcc: Jeff Busnach/Bev/NA/Millipore) Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Conductivity meter --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- I'm looking for a conductivity meter that can measure small volume, say 10uL. Myles Reilly, Engineer University of Utah Genome Center 20 S 2030 E RM 308 Salt Lake City, UT 84112-9454 Work Phone 801-585-7930 FAX 801-585-7177 WWW URL: --- Lab-Robotics Discussion To be removed from this list, please send an e-mail message to discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org with just UNSUBSCRIBE as the subject. From: david.jones@SPAMFOIL.thermobio.com Subject: Kinetics Analyzer Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:55:35 +0200 Dear Mr. Dunlap. Labsystems offers a product called the iEMS Kinetics Analyzer, a 96 well microplate based research spectrophotometer, available either with or without on-board dispensing for rapid kinetics. The iEMS is the only microplate reader available with an 8-channel dispenser (or on board dispensing of any kind, that we are aware of). This enables the addition of a start reagent and immediate measurement, a critical feature in rapid kinetic enzyme studies, for example. Reactions can be monitored at 1 second intervals, ensuring maximum reproducibility of assay timing. The iEMS has been designed to incorporate the best research level optical performance (Linear to 4.0 abs units, CV <0.2%) and exceptional temperature control (Accuracy +/- 0.5 deg C, Uniformity <0.4 deg C across a plate). Despite it's advanced features, the iEMS costs only marginally more than a standard microplate photometer. Please call if I may provide additional information, <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< David W. Jones Marketing Product Manager LABSYSTEMS, North America 1-800-522-7763 david.jones@SPAMFOIL.thermobio.com From: "david allen" Subject: mobile Zymark arms Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:54:35 -0400 has anyone seen a good way to provide a portable base for the Zymark arms? I have a couple that I'd like to take around for demos at schools and such but I need some sort of cart or case that can be quickly setup and taken down. I was thinking of a wooden box on wheels, as wide and deep as the arm, with the arm mounted on top, about 35" tall, with sides that folded up to for a work space, and storage for the controller and components inside. it'd be nice though if there was already a working solution available. da From: "Anthony Uzzo" Subject: wireless ethernet datacomm devices Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:05:27 +0100 Does anyone have any experience with wireless ethernet datacomm devices? If so I would appreciate some information about these devices failure rates and recoverability from failure. What does a failure require in order to re-establish the connection? I would also like to know which manufacturer you are currently using and if you are content with their level of customer service and support. Also what is the range you are currently seeing with this device, and is it bound by open air only or can you still achieve this range through walls, etc? Thank you, Anthony Uzzo Neurogen Corporation From: "Miguel Maccio" Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: wireless ethernet datacommdevices Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 12:28:05 -0400 Check http://www.smkusa.com/whatsnew/infrared.html http://www.irda.org/standards/standards.asp which describes the standard IRLAN TekRam makes the IRNet-610 check it at http://www.tekram.com and the overseas made YALO: http://www.irlan.co.il Miguel >>> "Anthony Uzzo" 09/08 4:05 AM >>> --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- Does anyone have any experience with wireless ethernet datacomm devices? If so I would appreciate some information about these devices failure rates and recoverability from failure. What does a failure require in order to re-establish the connection? I would also like to know which manufacturer you are currently using and if you are content with their level of customer service and support. Also what is the range you are currently seeing with this device, and is it bound by open air only or can you still achieve this range through walls, etc? Thank you, Anthony Uzzo Neurogen Corporation --- Lab-Robotics Discussion To be removed from this list, please send an e-mail message to discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org with just UNSUBSCRIBE as the subject. From: "Gail M. Lachs" Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: mobile Zymark arms Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:12:12 EST Hi David, We recently encountered a similar problem in our technical sales and service department here at Matrix for transporting modules of our PlateMate system. We needed a type of case that could be conveniently carried or shipped when necessary. We actually had a PlateMate casualty when one of our tech reps tripped on a curb while carrying a unit into a customer account. Our rep, thank goodness, survived with just a few scratches, but the PlateMate wasn't so fortunate! Our technical service manager found some great carrying cases for us. They are made of a thick durable plastic suitable for shipping and have heavy duty carrying handles on the top and sides. The case comes filled with a solid piece of foam (and a handy knife for cutting it) that can be custom cut to fit what ever you need to transport. I know the cases were available in a variety of shapes and sizes. We also use very strong wheeled carts that compact for travel and open very easily. They make a great portable work surface for demonstrations. If your interested, please let me know and I'll be happy find out where we purchase these items from. Kind regards, Gail M. Lachs Automation Sales Coordinator Matrix Technologies Corporation Hudson, NH (800) 345-0206 ext 151 glachs@SPAMFOIL.matrixtechcorp.com > Reply-to: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org > From: "david allen" > To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org (Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List) > Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: mobile Zymark arms > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:54:35 -0400 > --------------------- > Lab-Robotics Discussion > --------------------- > has anyone seen a good way to provide a portable base for the Zymark arms? > I have a couple that I'd like to take around for demos at schools and such > but I need some sort of cart or case that can be quickly setup and taken > down. I was thinking of a wooden box on wheels, as wide and deep as the > arm, with the arm mounted on top, about 35" tall, with sides that folded up > to for a work space, and storage for the controller and components inside. > it'd be nice though if there was already a working solution available. > > > da > From: "Sanjaya N. Joshi" Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: wireless ethernet datacomm devices Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:09:02 -0700 Wireless LAN (IEEE 802.11) is a nascent market. It is about to go "big-time" with the fall release of the "Air-LAN" series by 3COM: Check: http://www.wlana.com/intro/introduction/index.html http://www.3com.com/promotions/wireless/index.html Hope this helps. -------------------------------------------------------- Sanjaya N. Joshi | If you can measure it, | Bioinstrument division | you can improve it. | Userspace Corporation | | sanjay@SPAMFOIL.bioinstrument.com | Lord Kelvin, 1895 | -------------------------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org [mailto:discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org]On > Behalf Of Anthony Uzzo > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 1:05 AM > To: Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List > Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: wireless ethernet datacomm devices > > > --------------------- > Lab-Robotics Discussion > --------------------- > Does anyone have any experience with wireless ethernet datacomm devices? > > If so I would appreciate some information about these devices > failure rates > and recoverability from failure. What does a failure require in order to > re-establish the connection? I would also like to know which manufacturer > you are currently using and if you are content with their level > of customer > service and support. Also what is the range you are currently seeing with > this device, and is it bound by open air only or can you still > achieve this > range through walls, etc? > > Thank you, > > Anthony Uzzo > Neurogen Corporation > > --- Lab-Robotics Discussion > To be removed from this list, please send an e-mail message to > discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org with just UNSUBSCRIBE as the subject. > From: "david allen" Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: mobile Zymark arms Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:31:49 -0400 > > If your interested, please let me know and I'll be happy find out > where we purchase these items from. > > Kind regards, > > Gail M. Lachs thanks for the offer, but I'm more interested in a portable workbench than a transport case. I need to minimize setup time and most schools don't have spare spaces to set one of these up. maintaining registration might be a problem, but I think I've got an optical system that can self-teach locations while I'm doing the intro. da From: Gottfried Griesmayr Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Subject: 96 well visible plate reader/spectrophotometer Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:37:00 +0200 --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- Dear Richard, Anthos Labtec produces a combined luminometer/photometer with twin dispensers built in. The setup of the dispensing - measurement sequence is flexible and may be adjusted to the delay you want to have from the initial dispensing to the first measurement. You can dispense and measure well by well, plate by plate or have any number of wells in between in one block (e.g. row by row). If you can allow about one minute interval time, you may initiate all 96 wells at once and then measure kinetic. If you need shorter interval times, you have to divide the plate into blocks of appropriate size. It is not a spectrophotometer, but you can have up to 15 filters simultaneously in the instrument. Best regards Dr. Gottfried Griesmayr Product & Account Manager Phone: +43 662 857220 Mobile: +43 676 3032676 Fax: +43 662 857223 E-mail: gottfried.griesmayr@SPAMFOIL.anthos-labtec.com Homepage: http://www.anthos-labtec.com -----Original Message----- From: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org [SMTP:discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org] Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 9:17 AM To: Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Digest -1999/09/04 - 1999/09/05 (5) From: dunlapr@SPAMFOIL.kodak.com Subject: 96 well visible plate reader/spectrophotometer Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:57:10 -0400 From: Richard P. Dunlap I would like to add a reagent to initiate a kinetic series inside a 96 well plate reader/spectrophotometer. I'd need to initiate at least 8 at a time and all 96 would be nice. Can anyone recommend a 96 well plate reader or preferrablly a 96 well plate spectrophotometer that has this capability? Thank you. --- Lab-Robotics Discussion The Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List is a feature of the Laboratory Robotics Interest Group, www.lab-robotics.org. From: "John Wetzel" Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Subject: 96 well visible plate reader/spectrophotometer Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:25:33 -0400 Richard: If you already know how to add the reagents and you just want to know how to measure absorbance on 96 wells, you may be interested in Tecan's Spectra Image plate reader. This instrument measures absorbance through digital imaging on an entire plate at once. Various bandpass filters are available to allow measurements at selected wavelengths. At Synaptic, we have been very pleased with our instrument and the service from Tecan. For more info, contact Carlos Barreda at carlos.barreda@SPAMFOIL.tecan-us.com. John Wetzel Synaptic Pharmaceutical Corp. > -----Original Message----- > From: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org [SMTP:discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org] > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 9:17 AM > To: Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List > Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Digest -1999/09/04 - 1999/09/05 (5) > > From: dunlapr@SPAMFOIL.kodak.com > Subject: 96 well visible plate reader/spectrophotometer > Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:57:10 -0400 > > From: Richard P. Dunlap > > I would like to add a reagent to initiate a kinetic series inside > a 96 well > plate reader/spectrophotometer. I'd need to initiate at least 8 at a time > and all 96 would be nice. > Can anyone recommend a 96 well plate reader or preferrablly a 96 well > plate spectrophotometer that has this capability? > Thank you. > From: David Meyer Subject: 1536 plate reader/imager Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:26:09 -0400 Hi Does anyone know of a company that makes 1536 plate readers (absorbance) or imagers. DAVE ________________________________________ David F. Meyer, Ph.D. Scientist Millennium Pharmaceuticals Inc. 270 Albany St. Cambridge, MA 02139 Tel: (617) 679 7475 Fax: (617) 551 7972 email: dmeyer@SPAMFOIL.mpi.com www.mlnm.com _______________________________________ From: John Beutler Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 1536 plate reader/imager Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:24:10 -0400 I was just on the phone talking to a fellow from Zeiss in Jena, Germany who said that they have a 1536 multilabel reader. JAB At 10:26 AM 9/10/99 -0400, you wrote: >--------------------- >Lab-Robotics Discussion >--------------------- >Hi > Does anyone know of a company that makes 1536 plate readers >(absorbance) or imagers. > >DAVE > > >________________________________________ > >David F. Meyer, Ph.D. >Scientist >Millennium Pharmaceuticals Inc. >270 Albany St. >Cambridge, MA 02139 > >Tel: (617) 679 7475 >Fax: (617) 551 7972 >email: dmeyer@SPAMFOIL.mpi.com >www.mlnm.com > >_______________________________________ John A. Beutler, Ph.D. Laboratory of Drug Discovery Research & Development National Cancer Institute NCI-FCRDC Frederick, MD 21702-1201 (301)846-1942 (301)846-6177 fax BEUTLER@SPAMFOIL.DTPAX2.NCIFCRF.GOV From: "Shannon Arrowood" Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 1536 plate reader/imager Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:49:07 -0400 Dave, LJL BioSystems has a 1536 reader available called Acquest. Acquest offers detection of assays based on: Fluorescence Intensity; Fluorescence Polarization; Time-resolved Fluorescence; Luminescence; Absorbance. High sensitivity can be achieved with assay volumes as low as 2 microliters. Each assay detection mode has been optimized in terms of sensitivity, dynamic range, signal-to-noise and crosstalk. Read speeds for 1536-well plates are ultra-fast and sensitivity is 100 to 1000 times greater than CCD-based imaging systems. For product information either call 888.611.4555 or simply log on at http://www.ljlbio.com/contact/prodinfo.html -----Original Message----- From: David Meyer To: Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List Date: Friday, September 10, 1999 2:30 PM Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 1536 plate reader/imager >--------------------- >Lab-Robotics Discussion >--------------------- >Hi > Does anyone know of a company that makes 1536 plate readers >(absorbance) or imagers. > >DAVE > > >________________________________________ > >David F. Meyer, Ph.D. >Scientist >Millennium Pharmaceuticals Inc. >270 Albany St. >Cambridge, MA 02139 > >Tel: (617) 679 7475 >Fax: (617) 551 7972 >email: dmeyer@SPAMFOIL.mpi.com >www.mlnm.com > From: Steve Turner Subject: Integration of HP GC's Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:26:13 -0700 Has anybody out there done any "integration" of HP Chemstation (A.06.01, "LeoChem") with their own software? We have an application that synchronizes the actions of several other systems (valves, pumps, temperature controllers) with three HP 6890 GCs (controlled by Chemstation). Currently, the only hook we have into Chemstation is through the use of their remote start cable, which is used to start an analysis via a TTL signal. This presumes that a method has been loaded for each GC, and that each GC is ready. What would be REALLY nice is to be able to tell Chemstation to load a method, tell us when it's ready, start a run and send us the results (or at least a path to the report file it just wrote to). I have done a little hunting around, and the only doorway I can see is DDE. Thanks, Stephen Turner Symyx Technologies 3100 Central Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95051 sturner@SPAMFOIL.symyx.com From: "David Wheeler" Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: VB Resources Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:13:51 -0400 By any chance does anyone know of a book or class which will demonstrate the code to interface visual basic with high throughput screening automated equipment? Thank you David Wheeler From: Mark F Russo Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: VB Resources Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:34:52 -0400 David: Please see our book called "Automating Science and Engineering Laboratories with Visual Basic" (http://users.erols.com/russomf/labvb.htm). We are also teaching a short course on the subject at LabAutomation 2000 in January (http://labautomation.org). I'd love to talk to you more about your particular interests. Cheers. Mark Russo mark.russo@SPAMFOIL.bms.com David Wheeler wrote: > --------------------- > Lab-Robotics Discussion > --------------------- > By any chance does anyone know of a book or class which will demonstrate the code to interface visual basic with high throughput screening automated equipment? > Thank you > David Wheeler > From: Christopher_Louer-1@SPAMFOIL.sbphrd.com Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: VB Resources Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:40:52 -0400 I found as a good general reference for automation: Automating Science and Engineering Laboratories With Visual Basic (Wiley-Interscience Series on Laboratory Automation) [Paperback] By: Mark F. Russo, Martin M. Echols From: "david allen" Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: VB Resources Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:50:58 -0400 the Russo and Echols book "Automating Science and Engineering Laboratories with Visual Basic" is a very good starting point. it deals more with VB and communications protocols than specific devices or instruments. they also teach classes at various meetings. the ISBN # is: 0-471-25493-2. da > By any chance does anyone know of a book or class which will > demonstrate the code to interface visual basic with high > throughput screening automated equipment? > Thank you > David Wheeler > From: Roger McIntosh Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: VB Resources Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:42:25 +0100 Your question seems a little overly broad. We at Cavro will shortly release a robotic system control package based on Microsoft VBA (as of version 6, VBA and the full VB environment share a common engine). One broad answer to your question is that most modern Windows based packages are COM (common object model) based (I would hesitate to buy software which is not!); with such systems, the equipment software should be designed such that its components are manipulable from your own software OR provision exists (as in our case) for the user to write code and additional objects from WITHIN the package. In any case, having a solid foundation in VB programming (version 6) and in COM technology is the key! Roger McIntosh Software Engineering Manager, Cavro Scientific Instuments At 08:13 AM 9/14/99 -0400, you wrote: >--------------------- >Lab-Robotics Discussion >--------------------- >By any chance does anyone know of a book or class which will demonstrate the >code to interface visual basic with high throughput screening automated >equipment? >Thank you >David Wheeler > From: "John Britt" Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: VB Resources Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:52:46 -0400 David, You might look at "Automating Science and Engineering Laboratories With Visual Basic" (Wiley-Interscience Series on Laboratory Automation). Comments on Amazon.com: Presents techniques for solving problems that commonly arise in a laboratory using Visual Basic 6.0, including communication through an RS-232 port and TCP/IP network connection, development of instrument controllers, and the creation of interactive scientific graphical displays. The guide also provides several custom-developed software tools for building software applications such as a customizable spreadsheet class, and a class containing a variety of predefined parsing functions. Familiarity with the BASIC programming language is required. dick_grier@SPAMFOIL.msn.com from Lakewood, Colorado , July 16, 1999: Top notch, for the novice to experienced lab programmer I really like this book! It covers the topic in detail and to makes an important contribution to lab automation literature. It is an excellent resource for learning Visual Basic and then applying it to laboratory operations. wjh5200024@SPAMFOIL.aol.com from Mt. Gretna, PA , May 4, 1999: An excellent resource for those active in lab automation There is numerous laboratory instrumentation and many laboratory operations using Visual Basic in some form with laboratory automation being a large user of Visual Basic programs. The book is written by Mark Russo and Marty Echols of Bristol-Myers-Squibb who are active in lab automation and have presented a course on this topc at national and international meetings. I liked the way this book to a straightforward approach to the topic with good explanations and sample problems throughout. It additionally provides information on how to download problems from the Wiley ftp site will would allow the authors the opportunity to update problems making the book less likely to suffer the fate of many books since unfortunately sometimes books are obsolete by the time they are published. This book is divided into 26 chapters with 3 appendices. It's 345 pages allow the topic to be covered in sufficient depth to make an important contribution to the automation literature. In addition to being an excellent resource for learning Visual Basic in laboratory operations, the book would also make an ideal text for a class on the topic. It should be included in the library of those interested in laboratory automation -----Original Message----- From: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org [mailto:discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org]On Behalf Of David Wheeler Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 8:14 AM To: Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: VB Resources --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- By any chance does anyone know of a book or class which will demonstrate the code to interface visual basic with high throughput screening automated equipment? Thank you David Wheeler John Britt SAIC Frederick P.O. BOX B Frederick, MD 21702 FAX [(301) 846-5206 phone (301) 846-5750 mailto: britt@SPAMFOIL.dtpax2.ncifcrf.gov From: "peter massaro" Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: VB Resources Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:46:53 -0400 Hi Dave There are many communication formats depending of the type of equipment you are trying to interface. Many PC based machine controls communicate through Microsoft DDE (dynamic data exchange), or through ActiveX and COM. Stand alone machines may communicate through serial communication (RS232) or through discrete digital signals. Is the machine you are trying to talk to PC based? In any case, my favorite VB resources are: 1. Microsoft Developers Workshop (book wirth CD) 2. MSDN cd (Microsoft Developers Network CD which comes with VB ver 6) Both are Microsoft's (believe it or not) and they are very good Hope this helps If not, I'd be happy to help further Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: David Wheeler To: Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 8:13 AM Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: VB Resources --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- By any chance does anyone know of a book or class which will demonstrate the code to interface visual basic with high throughput screening automated equipment? Thank you David Wheeler From: Marc Feiglin Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: VB Resources Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:10:15 -0400 Dave, How to write VB code to communicate with a lab instrument is relatively easy...assuming it is connected through a serial interface, you can use the MSCOMM ocx that comes with VB....there is enough documnetation on the CD that can help with this. Mark Russo (currently at BMS) wrote a book specifically on using VB for lab automation Marc David Wheeler wrote: > > --------------------- > Lab-Robotics Discussion > --------------------- > By any chance does anyone know of a book or class which will demonstrate the code > to interface visual basic with high throughput screening automated equipment ? > Thank you > David Wheeler > From: Ken Nelson Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Integration of HP GC's Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:04:52 -0400 Hi Steve, I have interfaced the HP ChemStation with two different applications. One for a Zymark dissolution tester using the ChemStation remote dissolution mode and a second with a Zymark tablet processing workstation using the ChemStation advanced UV mode. Both applications run ChemStation methods, interface with the HP 8452A/8453 spectrometers, and save ChemStation reports. Communication with the ChemStation is via DDE, and I have found this to be sufficiently versatile and very reliable. The first interface was written in VB4 (16 bit), the second in VB6 (32 bit). I have no experience with the ChemStation GC mode. Each ChemStation mode is quite different and experience I gained with the first application was not much help with the second. I have talked with HP about an application using the ChemStation LC mode, and it would be still different. I left Zymark R&D over five years ago and formed Vista Consulting. I provide training to Zymark customers and continued to teach an advanced interfacing school (AIS) at Zymark. I have contracted with Zymark and their customers for various development jobs. Best Regards, Ken Nelson Vista Consulting 19 Stonehill Road North Attleboro, MA 02760 kenelson@SPAMFOIL.ici.net At 01:26 PM 9/13/99 -0700, Steve Turner wrote: >--------------------- >Lab-Robotics Discussion >--------------------- >Has anybody out there done any "integration" of HP Chemstation (A.06.01, >"LeoChem") with their own software? We have an application that >synchronizes the actions of several other systems (valves, pumps, >temperature controllers) with three HP 6890 GCs (controlled by Chemstation). >Currently, the only hook we have into Chemstation is through the use of >their remote start cable, which is used to start an analysis via a TTL >signal. This presumes that a method has been loaded for each GC, and that >each GC is ready. What would be REALLY nice is to be able to tell >Chemstation to load a method, tell us when it's ready, start a run and send >us the results (or at least a path to the report file it just wrote to). I >have done a little hunting around, and the only doorway I can see is DDE. > > >Thanks, > > >Stephen Turner >Symyx Technologies >3100 Central Expressway >Santa Clara, CA 95051 >sturner@SPAMFOIL.symyx.com > From: "Greg Paneitz" Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Integration of HP GC's Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:25:25 -0400 Hello Steve, I ran into the same problem with the HP 6890's. I ended up converting the instrument control software from Chemstation to the client/server version of TurboChrom. TurboChrom is much better suited for production style instrument control. Feel free to contact me directly if you would like to discuss this further. Greg Paneitz SymbioSystems 206-465-0048 gpaneitz@SPAMFOIL.symbiosystems.com --Original Message----- From: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org [mailto:discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org]On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 4:26 PM To: Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Integration of HP GC's --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- Has anybody out there done any "integration" of HP Chemstation (A.06.01, "LeoChem") with their own software? We have an application that synchronizes the actions of several other systems (valves, pumps, temperature controllers) with three HP 6890 GCs (controlled by Chemstation). Currently, the only hook we have into Chemstation is through the use of their remote start cable, which is used to start an analysis via a TTL signal. This presumes that a method has been loaded for each GC, and that each GC is ready. What would be REALLY nice is to be able to tell Chemstation to load a method, tell us when it's ready, start a run and send us the results (or at least a path to the report file it just wrote to). I have done a little hunting around, and the only doorway I can see is DDE. Thanks, Stephen Turner Symyx Technologies 3100 Central Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95051 sturner@SPAMFOIL.symyx.com From: "Melissa Rouzer" Subject: FW: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Integration of HP GC's Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:21:43 -0500 Years ago we controlled an HP 1050 HPLC via DDE with Chemstation (A.03.02). This was implemented under MDS, a language very similar to BASIC. The system is able to load a method or sequence, detect the status, run the method or sequence, parse the resulting data files, and perform calculations on the results. I am not aware of any method other than DDE. Melissa A. Rouzer Project Manager Beckman Coulter, Inc. SAGIAN Operations 7451 Winton Drive Indianapolis, IN 46268 melissa.rouzer@SPAMFOIL.sagian.com -----Original Message----- From: Carl Murray Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 10:24 AM To: Melissa Rouzer Subject: FW: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Integration of HP GC's ---------- From: Steve Turner[SMTP:sturner@SPAMFOIL.symyx.com] Reply To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 3:26 PM To: Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Integration of HP GC's --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- Has anybody out there done any "integration" of HP Chemstation (A.06.01, "LeoChem") with their own software? We have an application that synchronizes the actions of several other systems (valves, pumps, temperature controllers) with three HP 6890 GCs (controlled by Chemstation). Currently, the only hook we have into Chemstation is through the use of their remote start cable, which is used to start an analysis via a TTL signal. This presumes that a method has been loaded for each GC, and that each GC is ready. What would be REALLY nice is to be able to tell Chemstation to load a method, tell us when it's ready, start a run and send us the results (or at least a path to the report file it just wrote to). I have done a little hunting around, and the only doorway I can see is DDE. Thanks, Stephen Turner Symyx Technologies 3100 Central Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95051 sturner@SPAMFOIL.symyx.com From: John Brohan Subject: Techniques of surface sensing Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:47:04 -0400 Hello I am interested in detecting when a robotic probe touches the surface of a liquid in a vial. Many robots have this facility built in, but I would like to be able to sense from time to time if the pipette tip is in the liquid. I do not know what physical property is measured to do this surface sensing. I have an elderly Tecan 505 robot and I want to add some new abilities to its rather fixed programming capabilities. Yours Sincerely -- John Brohan National Instruments Alliance member in Montreal Traders Micro "We connect all sorts of things to computers" 317 Barberry Place DDO Montreal PQ Canada H9G 1V3 Tel (514)995-3749 jbrohan@SPAMFOIL.citenet.net http://g41-92.citenet.net/users/ctmx3460/ From: Wegner Mark MM Subject: formulation analytical applications Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:21:58 -0400 I manage a group of 8 chemists doing analysis and methods development for agricultural chemical formulations. The samples we handle are usually finished products and not residue samples. We are an R & D support group which handles a wide variety of samples, but usually not more than 10 of one kind at a time. Many of our samples are from storage stability testing. We mainly use GC and HPLC but are also getting interested in quantitative IR. Because we do a little bit of a lot of different things, I've never been able to clearly see how robotics might be able to help us out, beyond the use of autosamplers for our chromatographs, which we already use. Is there anyone else out there in a situation similar to mine? Have you invested in robots? MMW From: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org (Lab-Robotics Discussion) Subject: Thank you for subscribing to Lab-Robotics Discussion Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:12:21 -0500 Thank you for subscribing to the Lab-Robotics Discussion mailing list. This message is sent once every 30 days to remind you of the commands which Arrow (our mailing list software) understands. When you reply to a message in a forum like this, it is generally considered "netiquette" to trim the original message down to just the portion you are replying to (if possible). Also, if you are replying to a string of messages, the same principle applies. The aim is to reduce the clutter for the other list members while preserving the sense of the message. When you post to the list, you may receive back some autoreplies from other list members email systems. This happens because some mail systems incorrectly use the "From:" heading instead of the "Reply To:" heading for autoreplies. This is unavoidable for us since we want to know who is sending a message to our list. To unsubscribe from the list, send a message to discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org with just UNSUBSCRIBE as the subject. To change to digest mode and receive messages once a day send a message with DIGEST-1 as the subject. To receive a digest once a week, send a message with a subject of DIGEST-7. To change from digest mode back to individual messages, send a message with DIGEST-OFF as the subject. For help with these and other Arrow commands, send a message to discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org with just HELP as the subject. Note: All Arrow commands are a single word (with no spaces) and are sent in the subject of the message to the list. Andy Zaayenga Moderator, The Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List mailto:andy.zaayenga@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org web site: https://www.lab-robotics.org --- Age of List in Days 353 Number of Subscribers 777 Total Number of Messages Posted to List 908 Average Number of Messages Posted Per Day 2 From: Philippe Luginbuhl Subject: liquid handlers in the femtoliter-picoliter range Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:04:09 +0200 Picoliter to femtoliter liquid array micro-dispensers From: philippe.luginbuhl@SPAMFOIL.imt.unine.ch Date: 16 September 1999 We have developped a DNA-injector for mass spectrometry which allows us to manipulate liquids in the femtoliter range (www-samlab.unine.ch). We are currently developping a micro-device (based on the silicon technology) for liquid handling which enables to dipense arrays of small droplets (0.01 to 0.5 pl) over a test-plate. The array consist of more then 96 injectors connected to a small liquid reservoir (1 micro-liter). Is there any potential interests of using this technology for automated liquid handlers in the femtoliter-picoliter range ? (e.g. liquid thin film deposition for test applications, DNA diagnostics, biochemical assays,...) Thank you for your comments and suggestions Dr. Philippe Luginbuhl Phone: +41 32 7205 121 Institute of Microtechnology Direct: +41 32 7205 515 University of Neuch漮el Fax: +41 32 7205 711 Rue Jaquet-Droz 12007 Neuch漮el, Switzerland Internet: HTTP://www-samlab.unine.ch E-mail: philippe.luginbuhl@SPAMFOIL.imt.unine.ch From: "Britschgi, Theresa" Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: liquid handlers in the femtoliter-picoliter range Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:52:28 -0700 Femto and Pico liter dispensing will have strong applications in performing scaled down dna sequencing reactions for capillary electrophoreisis. We would be very interested to hear about your developments in this area. Theresa Britschgi Chiroscience R & D Sequencing Group 1725 220th street SE #200 Seattle, WA 98021 USA 425-489-8000 -----Original Message----- From: Philippe Luginbuhl [mailto:Philippe.Luginbuhl@SPAMFOIL.imt.unine.ch] Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 12:04 AM To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: liquid handlers in the femtoliter-picoliter range --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- Picoliter to femtoliter liquid array micro-dispensers From: philippe.luginbuhl@SPAMFOIL.imt.unine.ch Date: 16 September 1999 We have developped a DNA-injector for mass spectrometry which allows us to manipulate liquids in the femtoliter range (www-samlab.unine.ch). We are currently developping a micro-device (based on the silicon technology) for liquid handling which enables to dipense arrays of small droplets (0.01 to 0.5 pl) over a test-plate. The array consist of more then 96 injectors connected to a small liquid reservoir (1 micro-liter). Is there any potential interests of using this technology for automated liquid handlers in the femtoliter-picoliter range ? (e.g. liquid thin film deposition for test applications, DNA diagnostics, biochemical assays,...) Thank you for your comments and suggestions Dr. Philippe Luginbuhl Phone: +41 32 7205 121 Institute of Microtechnology Direct: +41 32 7205 515 University of Neuch漮el Fax: +41 32 7205 711 Rue Jaquet-Droz 12007 Neuch漮el, Switzerland Internet: HTTP://www-samlab.unine.ch E-mail: philippe.luginbuhl@SPAMFOIL.imt.unine.ch --- Lab-Robotics Discussion There is a web based companion to the LRIG Discussion Mailing List called DiscussWeb. The LRIG DiscussWeb allows for on-line messaging, responses, and reviewing of past posts. It may be found at https://www.lab-robotics.org/Web_Discuss/ From: Mike Lafferty Subject: 96 Well Sonication Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:04:23 -0700 Does anyone know of a means to sonicate the contents of a large number 96 well plates? Ideally, the system would have multiple sonication heads (8 would be nice) and would process a number of plates without manual intervention. The heads must cleaned between wells to avoid cross-contamination. If there aren't any complete systems available, we could integrate a sonication head onto a Biomek or other motion control device. I would appreciate any help locating such equipment. Thank you. Mike Lafferty Principal Engineer Diversa Corp. 10665 Sorrento Valley Road San Diego, CA 92121 TEL: 619-623-5131 FAX: 619-623-5120 mlafferty@SPAMFOIL.diversa.com From: Philippe Luginbuhl Subject: Picoliter to femtoliter liquid array micro-dispensers Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:10:44 +0200 Picoliter to femtoliter liquid array micro-dispensers From: philippe.luginbuhl@SPAMFOIL.imt.unine.ch Date: 17 September 1999 The purpose of our new device is to manipulate small droplets of only a few fl-pl from one place to another (precise liquid dispensing) over a flat surface. The droplets are comming from a same liquid reservoir (dead volume smaller than 20 microliters). As shown in the bottom picture of this web site (http://www-samlab.unine.ch/projects/DNA-Injector/DNA-Injector.htm) we are able to create very smal droplets and are now trying to transfer droplets from the array of many nozzles onto (or into) a well confined place (a kind of smaller microplate). Our objective is to handle very small amount of liquid, but it should also be possible to handle nanoliters (drop diameter = 124 micrometers). As far as I know, the actual microplates have 96 entries or 324 or 1536, but the distance between two adjacent entries remains constant in order to use conventional devices already on the market for the various test measurements. In fact, my question concerns the utility or future potential use of reducing this distance between two samples in order to have more entries on a (smaller ) "microplate". The microfabrication based on silicon technology allows us to fabricate arrays of dispensers much more closer than conventional liquid handlers. One could imagine to create an array of smaller microplates having each 324 samples, and each microplate being filled in one operation with a 324 liquid Si-dispenser. Do you think that there is any interest for this development (smaller dispensers and smaller microplates), e.g. an array of 324 micro-nozzels dispensers (diameters = 4 micrometers) fabricated over a 1 cm2 area ? Thank you for your comments and suggestions Dr. Philippe Luginbuhl Phone: +41 32 7205 121 Institute of Microtechnology Direct: +41 32 7205 515 University of Neuch漮el Fax: +41 32 7205 711 Rue Jaquet-Droz 12007 Neuch漮el, Switzerland Internet: HTTP://www-samlab.unine.ch E-mail: philippe.luginbuhl@SPAMFOIL.imt.unine.ch From: David Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: formulation analytical applications Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:19:06 +0100 Hello, Surely this question is the wrong way round. I have sometimes said to my people: "no-one needs a robot." Incredulous looks of "why are we here?". People have problems and if we can solve the problem with a robot then we've sold a robot and the customer now owns one. If there's no problem in the first place for a robot to solve then that's the end of it. Actually I have a little essay on why people need (or don't need) robots on: http://ds.dial.pipex.com/robotics1/whyrobot.htm Regards, David Sands (ST) Wegner Mark MM wrote: > I manage a group of 8 chemists doing analysis and methods development for > agricultural chemical formulations. The samples we handle are usually > finished products and not residue samples. We are an R & D support group > which handles a wide variety of samples, but usually not more than 10 of one > kind at a time. Many of our samples are from storage stability testing. We > mainly use GC and HPLC but are also getting interested in quantitative IR. > > Because we do a little bit of a lot of different things, I've never been > able to clearly see how robotics might be able to help us out, beyond the > use of autosamplers for our chromatographs, which we already use. Is there > anyone else out there in a situation similar to mine? Have you invested in > robots? -- ________________________________________________________ David N. Sands, ST Robotics International Website: http://www.strobotics.com Bad command. Bad, bad command..... From: "Ramesha, Chakk {HIGH~Palo Alto}" Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Techniques of surface sensing Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:14:23 -0700 Try Packards Multipet. It has the conductivity tip option that could detect/sense the liquid > -----Original Message----- > From: John Brohan [SMTP:jbrohan@SPAMFOIL.citenet.net] > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 2:47 PM > To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org > Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Techniques of surface sensing > > --------------------- > Lab-Robotics Discussion > --------------------- > Hello > I am interested in detecting when a robotic probe touches the surface of > a liquid in a vial. Many robots have this facility built in, but I would > like to be able to sense from time to time if the pipette tip is in the > liquid. I do not know what physical property is measured to do this > surface sensing. > > I have an elderly Tecan 505 robot and I want to add some new abilities > to its rather fixed programming capabilities. > > Yours Sincerely > -- > John Brohan National Instruments Alliance member in Montreal > Traders Micro "We connect all sorts of things to computers" > 317 Barberry Place DDO Montreal PQ Canada H9G 1V3 Tel (514)995-3749 > jbrohan@SPAMFOIL.citenet.net http://g41-92.citenet.net/users/ctmx3460/ > From: Andy Zaayenga Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96 Well Sonication Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:15:13 -0400 Mike, There is a manufacturer that provides a single horn that sonicates the entire plate at once from below the plate. It looks attractive because the transducer never touches the sample, therefore you don't have to wash it. In addition you have the concurrency of sonicating all the wells at once. We have not used it yet so I can't speak to its efficacy. The web site is www.misonix.com. Andy Zaayenga TekCel Corporation Mailto:andy.zaayenga@SPAMFOIL.tekcel.com Web Site: http://tekcel.com At 05:04 PM 9/16/1999 -0700, Mike Lafferty wrote to Andy: |--------------------- |Lab-Robotics Discussion |--------------------- |Does anyone know of a means to sonicate the contents of a large number 96 |well plates? Ideally, the system would have multiple sonication heads (8 |would be nice) and would process a number of plates without manual |intervention. The heads must cleaned between wells to avoid |cross-contamination. If there aren't any complete systems available, we |could integrate a sonication head onto a Biomek or other motion control |device. I would appreciate any help locating such equipment. Thank you. | |Mike Lafferty |Principal Engineer |Diversa Corp. |10665 Sorrento Valley Road |San Diego, CA 92121 |TEL: 619-623-5131 |FAX: 619-623-5120 |mlafferty@SPAMFOIL.diversa.com | From: "Tom McCloud " Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96 Well Sonication Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:41:21 -0400 Mike, We tried out a sonicator made by MISONIX (Farmingdale, NY 516-694-9412) which has a horn pointing upward into a small tray into which you place a 96 well plate. At 600 watts output, it was more powerful that other smaller units we have used. Our problem is the resolubilization of organic solvent soluble extracts from plants which have been vacuum dried in the wells into a mostly aqueous system. This is an extremely difficult task. The MISONIX unit was not sufficiently successful in this task for me to justify purchasing it. However, I had two MISONIX employees tell me they were working on an improved unit. I do not know of anyone making a sonicator with 96 tiny tips. If your resolubilization problem is an easy one, try a Branson ultrasonic glassware cleaner. You can easily get 8 plates in one of them. Tom McCloud SAIC Frederick Cancer Research From: Mike Lafferty To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org (Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List) Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96 Well Sonication Date sent: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:04:23 -0700 Send reply to: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org > --------------------- > Lab-Robotics Discussion > --------------------- > Does anyone know of a means to sonicate the contents of a large number 96 > well plates? Ideally, the system would have multiple sonication heads (8 > would be nice) and would process a number of plates without manual > intervention. The heads must cleaned between wells to avoid > cross-contamination. If there aren't any complete systems available, we > could integrate a sonication head onto a Biomek or other motion control > device. I would appreciate any help locating such equipment. Thank you. > > Mike Lafferty > Principal Engineer > Diversa Corp. > 10665 Sorrento Valley Road > San Diego, CA 92121 > TEL: 619-623-5131 > FAX: 619-623-5120 > mlafferty@SPAMFOIL.diversa.com > > --- Lab-Robotics Discussion > The LRIG also maintains a mailing list for buying and selling used > laboratory automation equipment. To subscribe to the Swap Shop list, send > a message to swapshop@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org with just "Subscribe" (no quotes) > in the subject. > From: Peter Siesel Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Techniques of surface sensing Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:20:09 -0400 John, Tecan's newer models, The Genesis and Miniprep have expanded the 505's ability to detect the surface of liquids. With our new, more flexible software, I believe your request can be achieved. I will have someone contact you to discuss this in more detail. Thank you for your inquiry, Peter Siesel Tecan US -----Original Message----- From: John Brohan [mailto:jbrohan@SPAMFOIL.citenet.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 5:47 PM To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Techniques of surface sensing --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- Hello I am interested in detecting when a robotic probe touches the surface of a liquid in a vial. Many robots have this facility built in, but I would like to be able to sense from time to time if the pipette tip is in the liquid. I do not know what physical property is measured to do this surface sensing. I have an elderly Tecan 505 robot and I want to add some new abilities to its rather fixed programming capabilities. Yours Sincerely -- John Brohan National Instruments Alliance member in Montreal Traders Micro "We connect all sorts of things to computers" 317 Barberry Place DDO Montreal PQ Canada H9G 1V3 Tel (514)995-3749 jbrohan@SPAMFOIL.citenet.net http://g41-92.citenet.net/users/ctmx3460/ From: "Feiglin, Marc" Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Techniques of surface sensing Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:55:36 -0400 Many of the commercial pipettors (including those from Tecan and Packard) use conductivity to measure liquid levels. I have even seen demonstration of a few instruments that use vision systems for test tubes. > ---------- > From: John Brohan[SMTP:jbrohan@SPAMFOIL.citenet.net] > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 5:47 PM > To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org > Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Techniques of surface sensing > > --------------------- > Lab-Robotics Discussion > --------------------- > Hello > I am interested in detecting when a robotic probe touches the surface of > a liquid in a vial. Many robots have this facility built in, but I would > like to be able to sense from time to time if the pipette tip is in the > liquid. I do not know what physical property is measured to do this > surface sensing. > > I have an elderly Tecan 505 robot and I want to add some new abilities > to its rather fixed programming capabilities. > > Yours Sincerely > -- > John Brohan National Instruments Alliance member in Montreal > Traders Micro "We connect all sorts of things to computers" > 317 Barberry Place DDO Montreal PQ Canada H9G 1V3 Tel (514)995-3749 > jbrohan@SPAMFOIL.citenet.net http://g41-92.citenet.net/users/ctmx3460/ > From: Kurt Timmerman Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96 Well Sonication Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:28:03 -0500 Mike: I have also had occasion to look for ultrasonic devices for microtiter plate formats. A full plate sonicator is what we would all like, but if this type of sonicator is not powerful enough, there may be another, though less parallel, option. Last year at Lab Automation I obtained some information from Sonix (203-270-4600, www.sonicsandmaterials.com.) Their literature lists a "Multi-Element Probe" that has 4 probes with spacing that is compatible with microtiter formats. I do not have any experience with the device - but it might be an option for you. Kurt Timmerman Manager, Custom Applications Department Bohdan Automation, A Mettler Toledo Company 847-557-0623 ktimmerman@SPAMFOIL.bohdan.com >---------- >From: Tom McCloud [SMTP:tom@SPAMFOIL.NPSG.ncifcrf.gov] >Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 1:41 PM >To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org >Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96 Well Sonication > >--------------------- >Lab-Robotics Discussion >--------------------- >Mike, We tried out a sonicator made by MISONIX >(Farmingdale, NY 516-694-9412) which has a horn pointing >upward into a small tray into which you place a 96 well >plate. At 600 watts output, it was more powerful that >other smaller units we have used. Our problem is the >resolubilization of organic solvent soluble extracts from >plants which have been vacuum dried in the wells into a >mostly aqueous system. This is an extremely difficult task. >The MISONIX unit was not sufficiently successful in this >task for me to justify purchasing it. However, I had two >MISONIX employees tell me they were working on an improved >unit. > I do not know of anyone making a sonicator with 96 tiny >tips. > If your resolubilization problem is an easy one, try a >Branson ultrasonic glassware cleaner. You can easily get 8 >plates in one of them. > Tom McCloud SAIC Frederick Cancer Research > > > >From: Mike Lafferty >To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org (Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing >List) >Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96 Well Sonication >Date sent: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:04:23 -0700 >Send reply to: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org > >> --------------------- >> Lab-Robotics Discussion >> --------------------- >> Does anyone know of a means to sonicate the contents of a large number 96 >> well plates? Ideally, the system would have multiple sonication heads (8 >> would be nice) and would process a number of plates without manual >> intervention. The heads must cleaned between wells to avoid >> cross-contamination. If there aren't any complete systems available, we >> could integrate a sonication head onto a Biomek or other motion control >> device. I would appreciate any help locating such equipment. Thank you. >> >> Mike Lafferty >> Principal Engineer >> Diversa Corp. >> 10665 Sorrento Valley Road >> San Diego, CA 92121 >> TEL: 619-623-5131 >> FAX: 619-623-5120 >> mlafferty@SPAMFOIL.diversa.com >> > From: "MCNICOL, DUNCAN" Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Heat Sealer Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:28:00 -0400 Annette, I am looking into the possibility of using the ALPS in my lab and was wondering if you could be a little more specific on why/how it malfunctioned. I currently have a demo model and wish to test it as best I can. (I'm sure you're aware of Zymark's Presto Sealers. We have several of those and they're pretty good for what we are using them for, but they don't seal plate bottoms, and the seals are not friendly to <0C storage) Any info on the ALPS would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Mark ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Heat Sealer Author: "Annette Jabson Wheelock" [SMTP:ajw@SPAMFOIL.alacrim.alanex.com] at S-P_EXHUB_AM Date: 8/26/1999 2:09 PM --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- I was wondering if anyone has come across any great automated heat-sealers for microtiter plates. We currently have a Marsh ALPS-100, but it is prone to a lot of breakdowns. Does anyone know of a very reliable one that could be integrated with a twister arm? Thanks - Annette Jabson Wheelock Alanex Corporation From: "Tom McCloud " Subject: Quality Control for a TECAN Genesis Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:49:30 -0400 We are preparing 96 well microtiter plates in support of a screening group with a TECAN Genesis RSP 150. A QC- type person at the facility has asked us to put together some data to verify the accuracy of the delivery. So my first question is: How have others addressed this sort of a request? (lit references would be useful!) What experimental data have you gathered? What is the precision others expect of such an instrument, and for a screening effort? Second: We prepared a solution of trypan blue and ran the TECAN through it's normal plate preparation routine. For this purpose we are using the permanent teflon coated stainless steel tips, and teflon tubing, and the 2.5ml syringe pumps. The normal plate preparation routine is somewhat complex, going through 2 dilution steps. The final delivery into test plates is 25ul. The plates were read at 570nm. The CV is in the 7-8% range. Is this a typical/acceptable range for others in industry doing similar work? Third: We are puzzled by an apparent trend of decreasing concentration on repetitive dispenses from the same tip. For example, when the TECAN is programmed to draw up 2400 ul of the dye solution, then dispenses 100 ul 24 sequential times, and the plate is read, this is want the data looks like: 1325,1278,1269,1321,1261,1251,1235,1223,1215,1177,1184,1125, 1099,1087,1070,1074,1103,1109,1066,1031,1004,1003,999,981 Overall there seems to be a trend of decreasing OD. We do not believe there is a change in the volume being delivered. There appears to be no mixing across the air gap. The system solvent is water, and the dye is dissolved in water. Could there be a sufficient volume of water retained on the walls of the teflon tubing to dilute out the dye solution as it moves up the tubing? Has anyone observed a similar effect and if so, what can be done to minimize it? Thanks for the comments. Tom McCloud Natural Products Support Group SAIC Frederick Cancer Research From: Martha Bowden Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Quality Control for a TECAN Genesis Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:52:11 -0700 Tom, I used to work at Molecular Devices Corp. which has a technology, called PathCheck, on some of their plate readers that will measure volumes of aqueous reagent delivered into a 96 well plate without using any dye. They have application notes on this technique and have even published a paper on it (I can't remember the reference). There are 2 methods that can provide accurate measurements down to 4 ul. CV's, I believe, are about 5% at 4ul but are more like 2% at higher volumes. PathCheck is available on the SPECTRAmax PLUS, 190, and 340PC readers. Call technical support at 1-800-635-5577 or check out their web site at www.moleculardevices.com. Martha Bowden (mbowden@SPAMFOIL.argotech.com) Argonaut Technologies -----Original Message----- From: Tom McCloud [mailto:tom@SPAMFOIL.NPSG.ncifcrf.gov] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 8:50 AM To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Quality Control for a TECAN Genesis --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- We are preparing 96 well microtiter plates in support of a screening group with a TECAN Genesis RSP 150. A QC- type person at the facility has asked us to put together some data to verify the accuracy of the delivery. So my first question is: How have others addressed this sort of a request? (lit references would be useful!) What experimental data have you gathered? What is the precision others expect of such an instrument, and for a screening effort? Second: We prepared a solution of trypan blue and ran the TECAN through it's normal plate preparation routine. For this purpose we are using the permanent teflon coated stainless steel tips, and teflon tubing, and the 2.5ml syringe pumps. The normal plate preparation routine is somewhat complex, going through 2 dilution steps. The final delivery into test plates is 25ul. The plates were read at 570nm. The CV is in the 7-8% range. Is this a typical/acceptable range for others in industry doing similar work? Third: We are puzzled by an apparent trend of decreasing concentration on repetitive dispenses from the same tip. For example, when the TECAN is programmed to draw up 2400 ul of the dye solution, then dispenses 100 ul 24 sequential times, and the plate is read, this is want the data looks like: 1325,1278,1269,1321,1261,1251,1235,1223,1215,1177,1184,1125, 1099,1087,1070,1074,1103,1109,1066,1031,1004,1003,999,981 Overall there seems to be a trend of decreasing OD. We do not believe there is a change in the volume being delivered. There appears to be no mixing across the air gap. The system solvent is water, and the dye is dissolved in water. Could there be a sufficient volume of water retained on the walls of the teflon tubing to dilute out the dye solution as it moves up the tubing? Has anyone observed a similar effect and if so, what can be done to minimize it? Thanks for the comments. Tom McCloud Natural Products Support Group SAIC Frederick Cancer Research --- Lab-Robotics Discussion To retrieve a help file on this list, send an e-mail message to discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org with just HELP as the subject. From: "John Morin" Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Quality Control for a TECANGenesis Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:29:31 -0400 Tom, I think most people are looking for overall CV's for biological assays of less than 10%, which probably requires reagent delivery CV's of no more than 1-2% in the volume range that you're delivering. It might be fun to know if you're looking at the effect of decreasing droplet size or of decreasing dye concentration. Given that the dye concentration probably has negligible effect on the density of your solution, some sort of gravimetric determination on individual successive drops might tell you if the drops are getting smaller as you proceed. At a guess, drop size might depend on "wetting" of the teflon coated tips or pressure head in the teflon feed line; concentration changes might reflect presence of microparticulate dye in suspension that lags to the end of the line during uptake or time dependent absorption of dye to the interior of the teflon feed line? (Cut it open and look for stains?) If you're really diluting the dye solution with water left behind on the feed line, maybe you could detect dye picked up as the system solvent (water on the pump side of the air gap) returns down the teflon feed line to the pipet tip, by dispensing some of it and looking for traces of dye? I'll be disappointed now if this turns out to be some sort of TECAN automation artifact. Best Wishes, John Morin >>> "Tom McCloud " 09/23 11:49 AM >>> --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- We are preparing 96 well microtiter plates in support of a screening group with a TECAN Genesis RSP 150. A QC- type person at the facility has asked us to put together some data to verify the accuracy of the delivery. So my first question is: How have others addressed this sort of a request? (lit references would be useful!) What experimental data have you gathered? What is the precision others expect of such an instrument, and for a screening effort? Second: We prepared a solution of trypan blue and ran the TECAN through it's normal plate preparation routine. For this purpose we are using the permanent teflon coated stainless steel tips, and teflon tubing, and the 2.5ml syringe pumps. The normal plate preparation routine is somewhat complex, going through 2 dilution steps. The final delivery into test plates is 25ul. The plates were read at 570nm. The CV is in the 7-8% range. Is this a typical/acceptable range for others in industry doing similar work? Third: We are puzzled by an apparent trend of decreasing concentration on repetitive dispenses from the same tip. For example, when the TECAN is programmed to draw up 2400 ul of the dye solution, then dispenses 100 ul 24 sequential times, and the plate is read, this is want the data looks like: 1325,1278,1269,1321,1261,1251,1235,1223,1215,1177,1184,1125, 1099,1087,1070,1074,1103,1109,1066,1031,1004,1003,999,981 Overall there seems to be a trend of decreasing OD. We do not believe there is a change in the volume being delivered. There appears to be no mixing across the air gap. The system solvent is water, and the dye is dissolved in water. Could there be a sufficient volume of water retained on the walls of the teflon tubing to dilute out the dye solution as it moves up the tubing? Has anyone observed a similar effect and if so, what can be done to minimize it? Thanks for the comments. Tom McCloud Natural Products Support Group SAIC Frederick Cancer Research From: Guard@SPAMFOIL.britbio.co.uk Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Quality Control for a TECAN Genesis Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:07 +0000 Dear Tom, We performed quite an extensive validation of our TECAN Genesis RSP 150 here at British Biotech when we took delivery of our machine 3 years ago. We performed the validation by 3 different methods: (1) colorimetric using cochineal dye, (2) radiometrically measuring the dispensing of a radiolabelled compound and (3) gravimetrically. All initial validation was done using the Genesis as supplied (1ml syringes, teflon tubing and stainless steel teflon-coated tips) In Single Pipetting mode, colorimetric analysis, aspirating and dispensing volumes from 5ul to 100ul diluted with system liquid to 200ul final volume, we found that the accuracies across a 96-well plate were between 100.6% and 106.3% and precisions between 97% and 98.9%. In Multipipetting Mode, colorimetric analysis, dispensing 50ul to all wells of a 96 well plate in 12 consecutive dispenses resulted in a similar pattern that you have observed, i.e. a tailing off in OD with consecutive dispenses. The % CV per plate was between 8.5 and 8.9% for 3 plates. This could be reduced to between 5.5 and 6.2% if the dispenses were performed in 2 lots of 6 and to between 3.7 and 4.0% if performed over 3 lots of 4 dispenses. However, gravimetric analysis of a 1 X 12 50ul multidispense across a plate showed that the volume being dispensed was extremely precise and accurate (mean volume dispensed = 49.3ul, % CV = 0.61%). We concluded from these types of experiments that the dye/radiolabel was sticking to the tubing or the tips. Indeed, TECAN UK did point out to us that the stainless steel teflon-coated tips were only coated on the outside and they suggested that we change our tips to ceramic-coated. This we did, and after many more validation experiments we were able to demonstrate a very good dispense profile for dispensing 25ul in 2 lots of 6 dispenses (instead of 1 lot of 12 to minimise contact with tubing) with % CVs across a 96 well plate of between 1.6 and 2.5%. I would therefore recommend that you change your tips to ceramic-coated and limit the volume you aspirate for multidispensing in order to minimise contact with the tubing. If you need any further details don't hesitate to contact me. Yours sincerely, Steve Guard D.Phil. Group Leader Discovery Biology British Biotech Pharmaceuticals Ltd. Oxford OX4 5LY Tel: 44 (0)1865 748747 ext 2276 Fax: 44 (0)1865 781034 Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.comReceived: from [24.218.168.90] by web503.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:15:07 PDT Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:15:07 -0700 (PDT) From: John Petracca Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Techniques of surface sensing To: 'discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Length: 3795 John, I have read your request and the subsequent replies. It seems everyone is pointing you toward commercially available equipment that has this as a feature. As a systems integrator and a National Instruments user, I understand that this is not always the true target. I recently designed a solution for a customer with a similar problem using NatInst equipment. The interesting (and I suppose key) phrase you use is "when ... touches". Can we first look at "that ... touches"? Several detectable events occur when a probe's (Hmmmm... Several assumtions made here...?) ambient environment changes from air to liquid. Examples are conductivity, pH?, temperature, etc. In my particular case, I was dealing with a fluid that was electrically conductive (albeit in the MegaOHM range) and a vessel that could be connected to earth ground. Thus, using the NI SCXI-1100, 5V could be "floated" at the end of a conductive "probe" and be brought to ground when contacting the surface. You could apply the same principle even if your vessel is not conuctive by using two probes, one as the ground and one as the floater. The resistivity of air will far exceed that of most fluids so a miniscule separation of the probes can be used. The voltage drop event will tell you "that" the probes touched but exactly what you mean by "when" is up to you. Again, using NI Component Works, the voltage drop event is reported to VB (or C) virtually instantaneously (on the order of microseconds and depending on how you set your scan rates and your software). If you want to know "when in time" this event occured then you must use some timer function and "look" at the timer upon occurance of the event. This will take more time and thus you must weigh how accurate is "good enough" for your application. If "when" actually means "where" then some means of reporting a spacial position must be incorporated (e.g. stepper motor control of the probe(also available through NI)). As I said earlier, many detectable physical properties change. However, I don't think any are as rapidly detectible and simple to sense as electrical events. (I know, they are all electrical events - but I think you know what I mean.) I hope my small discussion has helped - if you think I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me. Sincere regards, John Petracca President jPi, Incorporated 67 Woodland Meadow Drive Lancaster, MA 01523 978-365-7487 jpi_inc@SPAMFOIL.yahoo.com -----Original Message----- From: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org [mailto:discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org]On Behalf Of John Brohan Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 5:47 PM To: Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Techniques of surface sensing --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- Hello I am interested in detecting when a robotic probe touches the surface of a liquid in a vial. Many robots have this facility built in, but I would like to be able to sense from time to time if the pipette tip is in the liquid. I do not know what physical property is measured to do this surface sensing. I have an elderly Tecan 505 robot and I want to add some new abilities to its rather fixed programming capabilities. Yours Sincerely -- John Brohan National Instruments Alliance member in Montreal Traders Micro "We connect all sorts of things to computers" 317 Barberry Place DDO Montreal PQ Canada H9G 1V3 Tel (514)995-3749 jbrohan@SPAMFOIL.citenet.net http://g41-92.citenet.net/users/ctmx3460/ --- Lab-Robotics Discussion The Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List is a feature of the Laboratory Robotics Interest Group, www.lab-robotics.org. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From: Jeff_Busnach@SPAMFOIL.Millipore.com Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Quality Control for a TECAN Genesis Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:04:04 -0400 Dear Tom, I would caution you to be very careful with your choice of tip material. While automating a kinase assay during the development of our MultiScreen 96 well phospocellulose filter plates, (shameless product plug, I know) I had a similiar experience with a TECAN genesis system. The teflon coated tips are not coated internally, so while they may look great from the outside with the green coating that won't corrode rapidly in your lab, they bind a lot of material, especially small molecules! In my case the highly negatively charged radiolabelled phospate group that I needed to transfer from ATP to my peptide. After weeks of frustration and reassurances from the vendor that the tips should work fine because of the teflon, I soaked them in DMSO and recovered a significant amount of radioactive material. "Oh yeah, you are correct, they are not coated on the inside...." was the response after my little experiment. I'm not bashing the TECAN system, In fact I was very happy with its liquid handling abilities, but beware the marketing spin put on Teflon coated tips. Someone may produce tips coated on the inside for this or other liquid handlers, but if I recall correctly the coating process or extrusion of a tip to produce even coating on the inside is very difficult. In addition, its very hard to inspect the inner surface for breakdowns over time. By switching to the TECAN disposable tip system, my cost per assay went up, but was more than made up for by the low CV's and my ability to actually produce some publication quality assay data. The assay I ran had two separate additions steps of 15 and 10 ul, preceeded by a prewet step, and several washes following incubation and my results were in the <10% CV range with vacuum steps interleaved at various stages in the protocol. You may want to dissolve your dye in Buffer rather than water to prevent any dissolution events, and I would also recommend that you membrane filter you dye solution in a .2um unit to remove any undissolved particulate. I conducted many dye evaluations using Bromphenol Blue in PBS pH 7.4. Let us all know how it turns out. Jeffrey S. Busnach MultiWell Products & Automation Scientist Email: Jeff_Busnach@SPAMFOIL.millipore.com Tel: U.S. (978) 762-5204 Fax: U.S. (978) 762-5384 MILLIPORE CORPORATION 17 Cherry Hill Drive Danvers, MA 01923 "Tom McCloud " on 09/23/99 11:49:30 AM Please respond to discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org (Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List) cc: (bcc: Jeff Busnach/Bev/NA/Millipore) Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Quality Control for a TECAN Genesis --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- We are preparing 96 well microtiter plates in support of a screening group with a TECAN Genesis RSP 150. A QC- type person at the facility has asked us to put together some data to verify the accuracy of the delivery. So my first question is: How have others addressed this sort of a request? (lit references would be useful!) What experimental data have you gathered? What is the precision others expect of such an instrument, and for a screening effort? Second: We prepared a solution of trypan blue and ran the TECAN through it's normal plate preparation routine. For this purpose we are using the permanent teflon coated stainless steel tips, and teflon tubing, and the 2.5ml syringe pumps. The normal plate preparation routine is somewhat complex, going through 2 dilution steps. The final delivery into test plates is 25ul. The plates were read at 570nm. The CV is in the 7-8% range. Is this a typical/acceptable range for others in industry doing similar work? Third: We are puzzled by an apparent trend of decreasing concentration on repetitive dispenses from the same tip. For example, when the TECAN is programmed to draw up 2400 ul of the dye solution, then dispenses 100 ul 24 sequential times, and the plate is read, this is want the data looks like: 1325,1278,1269,1321,1261,1251,1235,1223,1215,1177,1184,1125, 1099,1087,1070,1074,1103,1109,1066,1031,1004,1003,999,981 Overall there seems to be a trend of decreasing OD. We do not believe there is a change in the volume being delivered. There appears to be no mixing across the air gap. The system solvent is water, and the dye is dissolved in water. Could there be a sufficient volume of water retained on the walls of the teflon tubing to dilute out the dye solution as it moves up the tubing? Has anyone observed a similar effect and if so, what can be done to minimize it? Thanks for the comments. Tom McCloud Natural Products Support Group SAIC Frederick Cancer Research --- Lab-Robotics Discussion To retrieve a help file on this list, send an e-mail message to discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org with just HELP as the subject. From: "Feiglin, Marc" Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Quality Control for a TECAN Genesis Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:04:02 -0400 Tecan makes ceramic coated tips that ARE coated on the inside. (These are not the green ones). However, they do not make these tips for their low-volume pipetting option. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff_Busnach@SPAMFOIL.Millipore.com [mailto:Jeff_Busnach@SPAMFOIL.Millipore.com] Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 3:04 PM To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Quality Control for a TECAN Genesis --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- Dear Tom, I would caution you to be very careful with your choice of tip material. While automating a kinase assay during the development of our MultiScreen 96 well phospocellulose filter plates, (shameless product plug, I know) I had a similiar experience with a TECAN genesis system. The teflon coated tips are not coated internally, so while they may look great from the outside with the green coating that won't corrode rapidly in your lab, they bind a lot of material, especially small molecules! In my case the highly negatively charged radiolabelled phospate group that I needed to transfer from ATP to my peptide. After weeks of frustration and reassurances from the vendor that the tips should work fine because of the teflon, I soaked them in DMSO and recovered a significant amount of radioactive material. "Oh yeah, you are correct, they are not coated on the inside...." was the response after my little experiment. I'm not bashing the TECAN system, In fact I was very happy with its liquid handling abilities, but beware the marketing spin put on Teflon coated tips. Someone may produce tips coated on the inside for this or other liquid handlers, but if I recall correctly the coating process or extrusion of a tip to produce even coating on the inside is very difficult. In addition, its very hard to inspect the inner surface for breakdowns over time. By switching to the TECAN disposable tip system, my cost per assay went up, but was more than made up for by the low CV's and my ability to actually produce some publication quality assay data. The assay I ran had two separate additions steps of 15 and 10 ul, preceeded by a prewet step, and several washes following incubation and my results were in the <10% CV range with vacuum steps interleaved at various stages in the protocol. You may want to dissolve your dye in Buffer rather than water to prevent any dissolution events, and I would also recommend that you membrane filter you dye solution in a .2um unit to remove any undissolved particulate. I conducted many dye evaluations using Bromphenol Blue in PBS pH 7.4. Let us all know how it turns out. Jeffrey S. Busnach MultiWell Products & Automation Scientist Email: Jeff_Busnach@SPAMFOIL.millipore.com Tel: U.S. (978) 762-5204 Fax: U.S. (978) 762-5384 MILLIPORE CORPORATION 17 Cherry Hill Drive Danvers, MA 01923 "Tom McCloud " on 09/23/99 11:49:30 AM Please respond to discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org (Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List) cc: (bcc: Jeff Busnach/Bev/NA/Millipore) Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Quality Control for a TECAN Genesis --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- We are preparing 96 well microtiter plates in support of a screening group with a TECAN Genesis RSP 150. A QC- type person at the facility has asked us to put together some data to verify the accuracy of the delivery. So my first question is: How have others addressed this sort of a request? (lit references would be useful!) What experimental data have you gathered? What is the precision others expect of such an instrument, and for a screening effort? Second: We prepared a solution of trypan blue and ran the TECAN through it's normal plate preparation routine. For this purpose we are using the permanent teflon coated stainless steel tips, and teflon tubing, and the 2.5ml syringe pumps. The normal plate preparation routine is somewhat complex, going through 2 dilution steps. The final delivery into test plates is 25ul. The plates were read at 570nm. The CV is in the 7-8% range. Is this a typical/acceptable range for others in industry doing similar work? Third: We are puzzled by an apparent trend of decreasing concentration on repetitive dispenses from the same tip. For example, when the TECAN is programmed to draw up 2400 ul of the dye solution, then dispenses 100 ul 24 sequential times, and the plate is read, this is want the data looks like: 1325,1278,1269,1321,1261,1251,1235,1223,1215,1177,1184,1125, 1099,1087,1070,1074,1103,1109,1066,1031,1004,1003,999,981 Overall there seems to be a trend of decreasing OD. We do not believe there is a change in the volume being delivered. There appears to be no mixing across the air gap. The system solvent is water, and the dye is dissolved in water. Could there be a sufficient volume of water retained on the walls of the teflon tubing to dilute out the dye solution as it moves up the tubing? Has anyone observed a similar effect and if so, what can be done to minimize it? Thanks for the comments. Tom McCloud Natural Products Support Group SAIC Frederick Cancer Research --- Lab-Robotics Discussion To retrieve a help file on this list, send an e-mail message to discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org with just HELP as the subject. --- Lab-Robotics Discussion To be removed from this list, please send an e-mail message to discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org with just UNSUBSCRIBE as the subject. Greetings, We have a HTS system by Scitec doing whole cell (bacterial) assays that require 24h incubation. After dispensing the assay plates, a lid is placed on each plate by a lid server. After 24hs, the CRS arm pulls the plates from the incubator and places them on a shaker, at that time the lids are removed by the CRS arm. The problem we are having is that sometimes during the lid removal, the plate is moved out of position which makes the plate "fly" during shaking. I'm wondering what is the group's experience with lid handling. I'll appreciate any comments and/or suggestions you may have. Thank you! J. Galazzo Microcide Pharmaceuticals From: "Britschgi, Theresa" Subject: RE: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Quality Control for a TECAN Genesis Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:26:04 -0700 sounds like what would happen with charged soultions of DNA! -----Original Message----- From: Jeff_Busnach@SPAMFOIL.millipore.com [mailto:Jeff_Busnach@SPAMFOIL.millipore.com] Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 12:04 PM To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Quality Control for a TECAN Genesis --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- Dear Tom, I would caution you to be very careful with your choice of tip material. While automating a kinase assay during the development of our MultiScreen 96 well phospocellulose filter plates, (shameless product plug, I know) I had a similiar experience with a TECAN genesis system. The teflon coated tips are not coated internally, so while they may look great from the outside with the green coating that won't corrode rapidly in your lab, they bind a lot of material, especially small molecules! In my case the highly negatively charged radiolabelled phospate group that I needed to transfer from ATP to my peptide. After weeks of frustration and reassurances from the vendor that the tips should work fine because of the teflon, I soaked them in DMSO and recovered a significant amount of radioactive material. "Oh yeah, you are correct, they are not coated on the inside...." was the response after my little experiment. I'm not bashing the TECAN system, In fact I was very happy with its liquid handling abilities, but beware the marketing spin put on Teflon coated tips. Someone may produce tips coated on the inside for this or other liquid handlers, but if I recall correctly the coating process or extrusion of a tip to produce even coating on the inside is very difficult. In addition, its very hard to inspect the inner surface for breakdowns over time. By switching to the TECAN disposable tip system, my cost per assay went up, but was more than made up for by the low CV's and my ability to actually produce some publication quality assay data. The assay I ran had two separate additions steps of 15 and 10 ul, preceeded by a prewet step, and several washes following incubation and my results were in the <10% CV range with vacuum steps interleaved at various stages in the protocol. You may want to dissolve your dye in Buffer rather than water to prevent any dissolution events, and I would also recommend that you membrane filter you dye solution in a .2um unit to remove any undissolved particulate. I conducted many dye evaluations using Bromphenol Blue in PBS pH 7.4. Let us all know how it turns out. Jeffrey S. Busnach MultiWell Products & Automation Scientist Email: Jeff_Busnach@SPAMFOIL.millipore.com Tel: U.S. (978) 762-5204 Fax: U.S. (978) 762-5384 MILLIPORE CORPORATION 17 Cherry Hill Drive Danvers, MA 01923 "Tom McCloud " on 09/23/99 11:49:30 AM Please respond to discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org To: discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org (Lab-Robotics Discussion Mailing List) cc: (bcc: Jeff Busnach/Bev/NA/Millipore) Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: Quality Control for a TECAN Genesis --------------------- Lab-Robotics Discussion --------------------- We are preparing 96 well microtiter plates in support of a screening group with a TECAN Genesis RSP 150. A QC- type person at the facility has asked us to put together some data to verify the accuracy of the delivery. So my first question is: How have others addressed this sort of a request? (lit references would be useful!) What experimental data have you gathered? What is the precision others expect of such an instrument, and for a screening effort? Second: We prepared a solution of trypan blue and ran the TECAN through it's normal plate preparation routine. For this purpose we are using the permanent teflon coated stainless steel tips, and teflon tubing, and the 2.5ml syringe pumps. The normal plate preparation routine is somewhat complex, going through 2 dilution steps. The final delivery into test plates is 25ul. The plates were read at 570nm. The CV is in the 7-8% range. Is this a typical/acceptable range for others in industry doing similar work? Third: We are puzzled by an apparent trend of decreasing concentration on repetitive dispenses from the same tip. For example, when the TECAN is programmed to draw up 2400 ul of the dye solution, then dispenses 100 ul 24 sequential times, and the plate is read, this is want the data looks like: 1325,1278,1269,1321,1261,1251,1235,1223,1215,1177,1184,1125, 1099,1087,1070,1074,1103,1109,1066,1031,1004,1003,999,981 Overall there seems to be a trend of decreasing OD. We do not believe there is a change in the volume being delivered. There appears to be no mixing across the air gap. The system solvent is water, and the dye is dissolved in water. Could there be a sufficient volume of water retained on the walls of the teflon tubing to dilute out the dye solution as it moves up the tubing? Has anyone observed a similar effect and if so, what can be done to minimize it? Thanks for the comments. Tom McCloud Natural Products Support Group SAIC Frederick Cancer Research --- Lab-Robotics Discussion To retrieve a help file on this list, send an e-mail message to discussion@SPAMFOIL.lab-robotics.org with just HELP as the subject. --- Lab-Robotics Discussion There is a web based companion to the LRIG Discussion Mailing List called DiscussWeb. The LRIG DiscussWeb allows for on-line messaging, responses, and reviewing of past posts. It may be found at https://www.lab-robotics.org/Web_Discuss/ From: "WILCOX, KURT" Subject: lyophilization vials - automated testing equipment/instrumentation Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:56:04 -0500 I'm working on a project to automate the sample prep of a Content uniformity method for product in lyophilization vials. The present method involves manually diluting the sample in-situ then taking an aliquot for dilution prior to analysis by UV spectrophotometry. I'm wondering if automated testing equipment for lyophilization products is available, or if anyone has worked on a similar issue(s)? >From my viewpoint the major hurdle is getting the product out of the vial quantitatively. Regards, Kurt Wilcox G. D. Searle From: David Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96-well plates: lid handling Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:07:56 +0100 Jorge Galazzo wrote: > > Greetings, > We have a HTS system by Scitec doing whole cell (bacterial) assays > that require 24h incubation. After dispensing the assay plates, a lid > is placed on each plate by a lid server. After 24hs, the CRS arm pulls > the plates from the incubator and places them on a shaker, at that > time the lids are removed by the CRS arm. The problem we are having is > that sometimes during the lid removal, the plate is moved out of > position which makes the plate "fly" during shaking. I'm wondering > what is the group's experience with lid handling. I'll appreciate any > comments and/or suggestions you may have. Thank you! This usually comes down to accuracy. The problem is that the lids typically fit the plates with only about 0.5mm clearance all round. That might sound alot but is hard to hang on to in an HTS system. Therefore you need to program the positions very carefully and make sure you program a very vertical path for the first 10mm or so. There should be no lateral movement of the lid when the grippers close. You also need to make sure the grippers are accurately made and programmed to the same angle as the plate+lid otherwise when the gripper closes it will turn the lid. Sometimes also poorly made or worn grippers can tilt the lid when they close. Assuming the grippers are OK there should be no reason why the robot makes any lateral movement during lid removal. Which model are you using? David Sands -- ________________________________________________________ David N. Sands, ST Robotics International Website: http://www.strobotics.com BASIC: Originally a simple language to test the student's ability to increment line numbers, now available only in complex extended visual versions. To determine the amount of complexity in your version use INSTR(1,X$,"silica"). A score above 1000 means MicroSoft are implicated. Less than 10 means you are probably still using FORTRAN but don't know it. From: David Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96-well plates: lid handling Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:14:59 +0100 Jorge Galazzo wrote: > time the lids are removed by the CRS arm. The problem we are having is > that sometimes during the lid removal, the plate is moved out of > position which makes the plate "fly" during shaking. I'm wondering > what is the group's experience with lid handling. I'll appreciate any > comments and/or suggestions you may have. Thank you! Almost forgot: another problem might be that you are lifting too fast. The vacuum under the lid will lift the plate slightly. Always do the first 10mm slowly. David -- ________________________________________________________ David N. Sands, ST Robotics International Website: http://www.strobotics.com BASIC: Originally a simple language to test the student's ability to increment line numbers, now available only in complex extended visual versions. To determine the amount of complexity in your version use INSTR(1,X$,"silica"). A score above 1000 means MicroSoft are implicated. Less than 10 means you are probably still using FORTRAN but don't know it. Whatman Polyfiltronics make a robot friendly lid that is a loose fit to eliminate the risk of the plate moving when the lid is removed. Catalog # 7704-1001 Clear Polystyrene lid. G Jorge Galazzo on 09/27/99 12:09:56 PM To: galazzo@SPAMFOIL.microcide.com cc: (bcc: Grahame Ledson/Whatman) Subject: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96-well plates: lid handling Greetings, We have a HTS system by Scitec doing whole cell (bacterial) assays that require 24h incubation. After dispensing the assay plates, a lid is placed on each plate by a lid server. After 24hs, the CRS arm pulls the plates from the incubator and places them on a shaker, at that time the lids are removed by the CRS arm. The problem we are having is that sometimes during the lid removal, the plate is moved out of position which makes the plate "fly" during shaking. I'm wondering what is the group's experience with lid handling. I'll appreciate any comments and/or suggestions you may have. Thank you! J. Galazzo Microcide Pharmaceuticals [] Part2.htm Another thing to check for: make sure that the sides of the lid aren't being squeezed in by the gripper and dragging on the plate during removal. We experienced this with Multiscreen plates on our SCITEC CRS system. I remedied this by teaching the robot grip height just below the top surface of the lid, avoiding the more flexible skirt. Look also for flexing and twisting of the gripper fingers when closing. The CRS servo gripper can apply too much force for lid handling if it isn't set correctly, and long thin gripper fingers (like SCITEC used for our system) will flex even with lower (30% of max) force settings. On the subject of SCITEC grippers, the ones they designed for our system use pointed set screws as the contact points for gripping. There are 2 screws per side, in pivoting gripper "pads" attached to the gripper fingers. I've found that with higher gripper forces (>50%), the pivot can run out of travel and the grippers lose parallelism. Adding latex gripper pads, between the screws, helped give some extra grip and compliance. Pete Greetings, We have a HTS system by Scitec doing whole cell (bacterial) assays that require 24h incubation. After dispensing the assay plates, a lid is placed on each plate by a lid server. After 24hs, the CRS arm pulls the plates from the incubator and places them on a shaker, at that time the lids are removed by the CRS arm. The problem we are having is that sometimes during the lid removal, the plate is moved out of position which makes the plate "fly" during shaking. I'm wondering what is the group's experience with lid handling. I'll appreciate any comments and/or suggestions you may have. Thank you! J. Galazzo Microcide Pharmaceuticals _______________________________________________ "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." Peter Kieselbach Pharmacopeia 609.452.3788 From: David Subject: Re: Lab-Robotics Discussion: 96-well plates: lid handling Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:27:48 +0100 Some comments here: Peter Kieselbach wrote: > On the subject of SCITEC grippers, the ones they designed for our > system use pointed set screws as the contact points for gripping. I've never understood why this type of grip is used. Such point contact is *never* used in production. Imagine handling 15 items a minute which is what we're used to at the sharp end of production handling. Such a gripper would never cope. > Greetings, > We have a HTS system by Scitec doing whole cell (bacterial) > assays that require 24h incubation. After dispensing the > assay plates, a lid is placed on each plate by a lid server. > After 24hs, the CRS arm pulls the plates from the incubator > and places them on a shaker, at that time the lids are > removed by the CRS arm. The problem we are having is that > sometimes during the lid removal, the plate is moved out of > position which makes the plate "fly" during shaking. I'm > wondering what is the group's experience with lid handling. > I'll appreciate any comments and/or suggestions you may > have. Thank you! > > J. Galazzo > Microcide Pharmaceuticals > > _______________________________________________ > "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." > > Peter Kieselbach > Pharmacopeia > 609.452.3788 -- ________________________________________________________ David N. Sands, ST Robotics International Website: http://www.strobotics.com Best file compression around- "DEL *.*" = 100% compression